SUMMARY: dead (?) IPC

From: Matt Goheen (matt@wbst845e.xerox.com)
Date: Mon Aug 31 1992 - 22:50:58 CDT


Some conflicting information here. Some replied simply to say
that what I was trying they had already done successfully. Well,
I have Sun shoeboxes working here as well (one on an IPX, the
other on a SPARCstation 1). Nice to know others hack things
together like we (I) do.

A couple of people said to check the fuses. However, I had already
done this (and said so in my original posting -- although perhaps
some people were thrown off by the word "pigtail", which is what
they are called in the Sun Express catalogue).

Another suggested memory -- which I did try. The symptoms are
slightly different in a machine with no (or bad) memory. In that
case, the LED light on the front panel remains lit (in my case it
would light for the first few seconds and then go out). At any
rate, this was not my problem.

There was mention of some SCSI pin grounding problems on some old
machines/boxes. However, I don't know exactly what to test. The
MD-21 reference sheet mentions that it can supply terminator power
by installing a diode and jumper, but they are not installed on the
controller I have.

After talking it over with our local Sun tech. rep. (who, BTW, is
always very helpful), it was decided that, yes indeed, the IPC
CPU board was now dead. I am sending it in for repair ($850 for
1 day turn around -- not too bad really).

Some questions remain:

        1) What caused the IPC to die?
        2) Do I have a "death touch shoebox"?
        3) Exactly how can I test the shoebox?

Thanks to all respondants:

    Koper.Jamgocyan@rcvie.co.at (Koper Jamgocyan)
    heiser@tdw901.ed.ray.com (Bill Heiser)
    bhunter@intelect.com (Bill Hunter [Intelligent Electronics])
    shj@ultra.com (Steve Jay {Ultra Unix SW Mgr})
    dasun!gandalf!murray@sunkist.west.sun.com (Mary Murray (Murray) x6795)
    kla!brandari%sunra@sun.com (Paul Brandariz x6546)
    Perry_Hutchison.Portland@Xerox.com
    Mike_Raffety <miker@sbcoc.com>

Here is my original question, a followup I sent out and all the
replies I received...

        - Matt Goheen

--------------------------------------
>From matt@wbst845e.xerox.com (Matt Goheen)
To: sun-managers@eecs.nwu.edu
Subject: dead (?) IPC

I installed SunOS 4.1.2 yesterday on an IPC here, installed some software,
configured it for our environment, etc. Everything fine so far. Then I
tried to hook up an old (read that "O L D") Sun shoebox with an ESDI disk
and Emulex MD-21 controller, along with a the typical QIC tape drive that
cames in the shoebox to the IPC. Power on and...nothing. I mean NOTHING.
Screen blank, front led comes on at first, then turns off. I pulled the
shoebox off, still NOTHING. I looked at the pigtail fuses and they looked
fine. I replaced two of them anyway (the two next to each other). Nothing.
Have I somehow fried this thing? Anything else I can try? What could have
caused this? Note that I didn't tamper at all with the shoebox. I noticed
that the SCSI cable ran from the SCSI IN connector on the shoebox to the
Emulex MT02 tape controller, from there to the Emulex MD21 ESDI->SCSI
controller (which was terminated). The SCSI id of the internal disk in
the IPC was 3 (which I didn't think would conflict with the ids of the
devices in the shoebox). I had no external terminators.

HELP?

        - Matt Goheen

P.S. I have no idea if the shoebox worked before -- it was sitting idle
     gathering dust in a corner...

---------------------------------
>From matt Fri Aug 21 11:31:53 1992
To: bhunter@intelect.com, cc_koper@rcvie.co.at, heiser@sud509.ed.ray.com
Subject: Re: dead (?) IPC

Apparently there has been some confusion about my first message. A bit
of clarification:

1) The machine is dead even with the shoebox disconnected (by dead I
   mean dark screen).

2) I have inspected ALL of the internal fuses. They all look fine.
   I replaced two of the three anyway (just to be sure). No change.

3) There is internal SCSI termination on the MD21 board in the shoebox.

4) I have two other shoeboxes running fine (one on a SS1, the other
   on an IPX).

Some new information:

1) The shoebox disk does spin up even when not connected to the IPC.

2) The green LED on the Emulex is flashing (normal).

3) I have not tested the QIC drive. I don't really care if it works.
   I will pull its internal SCSI cable to take it out of the loop.

4) What I really care about right now is -- what's wrong with the IPC
   and can I fix it?

Thanks for the initial responces -- keep trying!!!

        - Matt

---------------------------------
>From Koper.Jamgocyan@rcvie.co.at (Koper Jamgocyan)
Subject: Re: dead (?) IPC

Hallo,

> Power on and...nothing. I mean NOTHING.
> Screen blank, front led comes on at first, then turns off. I pulled the
> shoebox off, still NOTHING.
>

Assuming that the CPU doesn't even bring the "Testing" banner when you
turn it on WITHOUT ANY SCSI (external) devices attached [== take the SCSI
cable out] I would suggest that one (or more) of the three (I think) fuses
on the motherboard may be burnt. Just open the CPU, find the fuses (round
black/white fuses), take them gently out and look inside for checking.

We had some SCSI-board fuses birnt out because of such problems with old
disks. Maybe the OLD disk has some problem?

regards,
Koper

--
Koper Jamgocyan,
Computer Center / Alcatel Austria-ELIN Research Center,
Ruthnergasse 1-7, A-1210 Vienna/Austria. Phone: (43)-(1)-391621/121
Internet: cc_koper@rcvie.co.at

--------------------------------- >From heiser@tdw901.ed.ray.com (Bill Heiser) Subject: Re: dead (?) IPC

> Matt Goheen wrote: > > I installed SunOS 4.1.2 yesterday on an IPC here, installed some software, > configured it for our environment, etc. Everything fine so far. Then I > tried to hook up an old (read that "O L D") Sun shoebox with an ESDI disk > and Emulex MD-21 controller, along with a the typical QIC tape drive that > cames in the shoebox to the IPC. Power on and...nothing. I mean NOTHING.

I noticed with our upgrades from 386i to IPX, there was a warning NOT to use old style disks. I dont' know if that means they cause damage or that they just don't work correctly.

-- Bill Heiser Work: heiser@sud509.ed.ray.com Home: bill@unixland.natick.ma.us Public Access E-Mail, USENET, UNIX, and UUCP Accounts 508-655-3848

--------------------------------- >From bhunter@intelect.com (Bill Hunter [Intelligent Electronics]) Return-Path: <bhunter@intelect.com> Subject: Re: dead (?) IPC

matt, you definitely need a scsi terminator on that "OLD" gem of a shoebox. did the ipc work when you unplugged the shoebox? i have used this config several times; so i know it `will' work.

also power on the shoebox without plugging it into the ipc; does the disk spin up? put in a tape and see if it rewinds (it should automatically do this). is the green light on the emulex flashing or solid? just a few things to check.

good luck,

bill hunter

_____________________________________________________________ | ____ ________ /\ | | Bill Hunter / // / \\ \ | | Sun Systems Engineer/Instructor / //_______/ \ \\ / | | Intelligent Electronics /___/________ / \/ / / | | 5340 South Quebec Street // / / / \//\ | | Englewood, CO 80111 //___________/ \//\ / / | | EMAIL: bhunter@intelect.com / /________ / / /\ / | | DIRECT: 303.779.2657 / // / / \\ \ | | CORPORATE: 303.779.6026 /___//_______/ \ \\ | | FAX: 303.779.6554 temple of the dog \/ | |_____________________________________________________________|

--------------------------------- >From shj@ultra.com (Steve Jay {Ultra Unix SW Mgr}) Subject: Re: dead (?) IPC

I don't have any idea why your IPC died. I just thought it would help you to know that I've successfully done exactly the same thing... hooked an old Sun shoebox to an IPC. It worked perfectly...I could use both the tape and disk. I could even boot off the disk.

Sorry I can't be any more help.

Steve Jay shj@ultra.com ...ames!ultra!shj Ultra Network Technologies / 101 Dagget Drive / San Jose, CA 95134 / USA (408) 922-0100 x130 "Home of the 1 Gigabit/Second network"

--------------------------------- >From dasun!gandalf!murray@sunkist.west.sun.com (Mary Murray (Murray) x6795) Subject: Re: dead (?) IPC

I'd be very interested in what you find out. I was thinking about doing the same thing with an old shoebox. good luck & thanks

sunkist.west!dasun!murray@sun.com

--------------------------------- >From kla!brandari%sunra@sun.com (Paul Brandariz x6546) Return-Path: <kla!brandari%sunra@sun.com> Subject: Re:dead (?) IPC

matt:

Could be memory!!! try pressing on the SIMMS then try taking off banks of SIMMS until the display comes up. Good luck.. ___________________________________________________________________________ Paul R. Brandariz E-mail Internet: paul.brandariz@kla.com KLA Instruments Corp P.O. Box 49055 Voice: (408) 456-6546 San Jose, CA 95161-9055 Fax: (408) 434-4273 ___________________________________________________________________________

--------------------------------- >From Perry_Hutchison.Portland@Xerox.com Subject: Re: dead (?) IPC Reply-to: Perry_Hutchison.Portland@Xerox.com

> The SCSI id of the internal disk in the IPC was 3 (which I didn't > think would conflict with the ids of the devices in the shoebox) ...

> I have no idea if the shoebox worked before -- it was sitting idle > gathering dust in a corner...

The MT02 is almost certainly set to target 4, and the MD21 is most likely target 0 (or perhaps target 2), so you're right that there should be no conflicts. Even if there were a conflict, it shouldn't blow up the host like that. I seem to recall a problem with an upside-down SCSI connector a few months back -- any chance something like that has happened here, courtesy of whomever last messed with that shoebox?

I have not tried it on an IPC, but I have used both the Emulex MT02 and an Adaptec ACB4000 (even older than the Emulex MD21 -- the ACB4000 talks to an MFM disk) with an SS1. SunOS (4.0.3c -- this was some time ago) was not exactly thrilled with the ACB4000 -- it complained about a non-CCS device or some such -- but it did work.

It may be time to drag out the voltmeter and check the power supply outputs. Conceiveably the +5 got shorted out trying to source terminator power to a shoebox which was designed for a 3/50 or 3/60 -- these did not supply terminator power on the SCSI bus and always required internal termination. Who knows what the old shoeboxes did with the termination power supply pin?

Let me know if you decide to junk that shoebox -- I have a 3/60 :-)

--------------------------------- >From Mike_Raffety <miker@sbcoc.com> Subject: Re: dead (?) IPC

Used to be ... Sun put power on a SCSI lead that the SCSI spec says is reserved. Most SCSI implementations ground the reserved leads. Maybe you blew a power-supply fuse?

Please be sure to summarize back to the list; thanks.



This archive was generated by hypermail 2.1.2 : Fri Sep 28 2001 - 23:06:48 CDT